The Other Way

045: Breaking Beauty Standards: A Conversation with Nadine Artemis

July 25, 2023 Kasia Stiggelbout Season 1 Episode 45
The Other Way
045: Breaking Beauty Standards: A Conversation with Nadine Artemis
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Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Reflecting on my teenage years, I remember flipping through magazines, testing out countless beauty products, and trying to make sense of it all. It wasn't until I started exploring health food stores and farmers' markets that I began to truly understand the connection between what we put in our bodies and how we feel about ourselves. My guest, renowned aromacologist Nadine Artemis, has taken this concept a step further, shifting the focus from external beauty to nurturing our bodies from the inside out. She calls it Renegade Beauty, and in our chat, we dive into this innovative mindset, shedding light on the science behind clean beauty and the importance of maintaining a balanced skin microbiome.

As a society, we've become accustomed to unrealistic beauty standards, often shaped by the media and intensified by the pressures of social media. Nadine and I discuss the real root of skin issues like acne, and how small changes in our daily routines can lead to significant improvements in our skin health and overall wellbeing. We explore the power of essential oils, the value of a balanced diet, and the impact of modern skincare products on our skin's microbiome. We also address the toxicity of social media and the comparison trap it creates, encouraging a healthier relationship with ourselves and our bodies.

But our conversation doesn't stop at skincare. We delve into more delicate topics such as body dysmorphia and the importance of self-care. We share our thoughts on the need to step away from the rat race and focus on nurturing our inner lives for outward stability. Nadine offers her insights on how to navigate beauty pressures, and we both share our experiences and advice on cultivating self-love and acceptance. Our chat is a celebration of natural beauty, self-knowledge, and nurturing the body from the inside out. Join us, and let's redefine beauty together.

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Kasia Stiggelbout:

Hello and welcome to Nourish. My name is Kasha and I'm an entrepreneur, a longtime meditator and a student of Chinese medicine. My mission with this podcast is to share the tools and practices to help you integrate your whole self into every aspect of your world. As someone who is both a Taipei high achiever and a deeply spiritual, vulnerable and empathetic being, i know firsthand how it feels to be living a double life showing up one way at work a different way alone and struggling to reconcile the two. This disintegration of authenticity is one of the biggest causes of burnout, health flares and anxiety. For me, understanding how the mind-body connection is crucial to health and success, cultivating a strong sense of inner self and applying the healing philosophies of Chinese medicine and Zen Buddhism to my life has allowed me to lead from a completely heart-powered place, letting go of other people's judgments and finding peace in allowing my multi-dimensional being to shine. My hope is that this podcast may inspire you to do the same. I want to call out. It is a practice, it is a journey, but I believe it is the most important thing that we can do for our bodies, minds and our ultimate potential. Enjoy, hello everyone. Welcome back to the show. I'm your host Kasha, and today I am so jazzed up For my next guest y'all.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

This incredible woman has been somebody that I've admired for such a long time. I am talking about the renowned Nadine Artemis, who is an acclaimed specialist in optimized beauty, wellness and health and an innovative aromacologist I think I said archaeologist later in my intro in this podcast, so ignore that who formulates immune-enhancing botanical blends, of which I'm a fan. She is the founder of living libations, a luxurious line of organic oral skincare serums and essential oil lakesers for those seeking and celebrating the purest products. Her concept of renegade beauty is shoes, complex rules and inspires people to rethink conventional commercial concepts of beauty and wellness. She is an esteemed speaker at health and wellness events and a frequent commenter on health and beauty for national media outlets. Celebrity fans include Renee Zellweger, serena Williams, mandy Moore and many others, and she is the author of two books Renegade Beauty and Holistic Dental Care, and I have not read Holistic Dental Care yet, but I'm obsessed with Renegade Beauty.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

This episode y'all is such a good one. I have been looking to bring on somebody who is a true expert in skincare and holistic beauty and holistic health, but what I love absolutely adore about Nadine is that her philosophy on beauty is so unique. It's really about whole body care, self-care and thinking about the products that we use of course, the foods that we eat, but also the products that we use in terms of skincare. Thinking about them in terms of not just immediate effects that is important but also long-term benefits And how can we nourish our skin from the outside in, from the inside out. Renegade Beauty gets into not just the kind of philosophical concepts of beauty, but the science behind the different ways that we can nourish ourselves, nourish our skin. Today we talk about that concept of Renegade Beauty and really redefining your relationship with your body, body dysmorphia, prioritizing care.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

For all of you out there who might be sometimes feeling a little bit insecure about the way that you look, not feeling so great, struggling with the concepts of anti-aging, trying to find a way to I don't know, just accept the way that you look y'all we get into it. On this episode, we also talk about some really cool science stuff the science behind clean beauty. What happens when we are incorporating products that are toxic. We talk about the microbiome of the gut, the mouth and the skin, which is something that I think is just starting to circulate in the health communities. We talk about what does skin and balance look like, how to heal it, talk about switching to clean beauty products and is there that Reddit commentary purge? and so much more. If you're into holistic health, if you're into beauty, if you're into and cultivating a sense of self-love self-love of who is that person looking back at you in the mirror this episode is for you. Without further ado, let's jump on in.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Nadine, welcome to the show. Hello, that was my very authentic, excited expression. I've already been raving before we started recording how super jazzed I am to have you here. Your book is phenomenal. We're going to get into that. Your theory on beauty and really how to live in sync with nature just so resonates with me. I have to say that when I read your book, there were moments where I was emotional because I felt as though somebody was saying the things that I deeply believed. But that's not really the narrative that I witness. I am so grateful that you wrote it. Thank you. We have a lot to cover today, but before we do that, i'd like to kick it off with a question that I ask every guest, and that is what are three words that you would use to describe yourself? Oh my.

Nadine Artemis:

I'm a thinker, i love thinking. It's like a whole playground in there. I'm sorry, i'm stumped on that one.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

I love it. I've stumped a lot of people.

Nadine Artemis:

I'm not normally stumped on questions either. I try not to think of myself too much in that way but we can come back to that.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

If you want, let's come back. Let's come back, all right. Well, we'll close it. We can close with that question. But oh, i feel so proud. I feel like this is a great moment.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

I had the co-director of the Stanford Sleep Clinic on not too long ago. We were talking about circadian rhythms Totally stumped him. I feel like the first five minutes were just like Kasha, like I really don't know how to answer this. I'm like well, great, because a lot of your research I don't even know how to fully explain what it is you do. That's fantastic. We're equal. You know one stump, the other stump. We'll get back to that.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

But as I already started to allude to your book and the work that you do, just to give folks an introduction you're an acclaimed specialist in optimized beauty, wellness and health and a innovative archaeologist who formulates immune-enhancing botanical blends which I love. You founded Living Libations, a luxurious line of organic oral skincare, skincare serums and essential oil lixers for those seeking and celebrating the purest products. And you have this concept of renegade beauty, which is also the title of your book, which kind of steps away from a lot of those complex rules and inspires people to rethink conventional commercial concepts of beauty and wellness. And, as I mentioned at the beginning, there were many moments in your book where I got emotional reading it, but the one that stood out to me was actually at the beginning and I screenshot it because you talk about how, and I quote in the pursuit of beauty, we have sprayed on the obsessions, filled our mind with flawless photoshop impressions, laid bare our skin to serious synthetic aggressions. We have Botoxed our expressions, shared sisterly confessions and endured serious surgical sessions. We dress on occasion with duress and fear to digress from beauty regimes appointed by glossy magazines. We have plucked, polymerized, plasticized, plumped with fillers, peeled with chemicals and preserved with parabens. We have poured on, picked upon and thought we were wrong. So we over, stripped over, squeezed and tried to appease the skin we are in. Wow, wow.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

I, yeah, i even get a little bit choked up when I read it again, because so many women, i think, know this inherently and feel it and perhaps have recognized it in their lives. And yet, myself included, i really struggle with just naming this and not just naming it, changing the approach that I take to how I feel about beauty, about myself and beauty, and just kind of stepping away from a lot of the things that we do to ourselves, and I read in your book that you kind of described your adolescence, your adolescent journey, really as exploring things in the realm of makeup and beauty, and you talked about an awareness of the trends at the time, and so I would love to hear about your experience of what sounds to me like this wake up, like a conscious awareness of this, like where did this come from? What was that journey like for you?

Nadine Artemis:

Well, i grew up like peak eighties, which I think you know was such a synthetic sense scape and other scapes, just a lot of sort of like I mean we're, i mean we're there now too. But it did seem like some kind of peak syntheticization and plasticization was coming in, and I think it was before we knew the party was over a bit In that other way. Like you know, we're just going to town with everything. You know. What I mean Like in consumption, i guess, is what it seemed like. The eighties did have a peak consumption, i guess, but it was sort of peak from all the other decades, because I think now we're in like some kind of meta peak consumption, probably you know so it's not like it went away, but I think at that point or like after that point, just sort of more options and stuff became available. You know what I mean. Like even health food stores weren't really around in the eighties, so to speak, you know. So then a whole bunch of stuff opened up.

Nadine Artemis:

But back to that teenager. Yeah, it was just such a plethora of like. I mean my bathroom was wild. It's just like bottles and bottles, and you know I was the youngest so I got all my mums kind of cosmetic hand me downs, my sisters. I was like pouring things together and experimenting And I just dove deep And then, luckily, by 18, you know, i was able to see some other things on the horizon. So yeah, by 18, i was at university And then you know, you're on your own, you're figuring things out, you're adulting, so to speak.

Nadine Artemis:

And one thing that I just really dove into was food, because now I was definitely buying and making all of it And luckily I lived on a street that had a little health food store And it was just, like you know, in a converted home. It was called grains and beans and things And I bought every bean and book in there And, like you know, so many great little books that are just, i mean, they're still around, but they were just so profound. One was like this naturopath who had this sort of European naturopath who'd written a few books called like How to Get Well, swedish Beauty Secrets, like I was all about that, you know, because I also felt like even in my childhood, teens, even though it was like this whole explosion of, you know, a synthetic smorgasbord, i was still like I was so into like beauty and beauty tips And you know, oh, what did your grandmother do? Or you know what I mean. So I was definitely like love to hone in and find out. So when I'm finding a book like Swedish Beauty Secrets, like I'm totally in you know.

Nadine Artemis:

So then I just was learning, oh, my God, there's like so many other ways to care for the body, especially the regular things that we come across, that you know, in my short life so far I was like the adults just don't have the solutions and the doctor doesn't. I mean just on minor, minor things that once you get a little bit away from that, you're like what? Also just being raised like you know, i have a good mom. She'd, like you did all the regular checkups and you know what I mean, like that kind of stuff. But you're, it's just so interesting to be, you know. And then you become a teen and then it's like, well, here's the doctor, this is, here's the gynecologist, here's sort of your rites of passage, and I just feel like the whole setup is not about you know, self-care, self-knowledge, like we can. It's about you know, just like you grow up and you learn to hand it over in many ways, even to the cosmetics that you're buying, and so that's sort of like what I was starting to understand. And then the fun thing, i mean it's such a rebellious childhood. But then it was like, oh, i felt like oh, there's like a whole productive realm to be rebellious in, sort of like that's when I got renegade, you know, with my beauty And as I'm understanding all the crazy stuff sort of going on in the supermarket and I had a book.

Nadine Artemis:

It was literally about like how to I forget what it's called, but it was about how to read the label at the supermarket. Basically I got to look up the title. I think it was written by the diamonds, who wrote like those vegetarian books and they had a whole one. And it was fascinating. I mean, like brown sugar was white sugar with molasses, you know, all brand kind of cereals basically had a fiber like a cardboard in there. You know secondary ingredients wouldn't be listed on like that can of soup. If it has cheese, it says cheese, but the cheese might have 20 more ingredients, you know. So it's just like so fascinating. Luckily there was also a farmers market in my university town, so that was great. You know, i'm like you know it's 1990 and I'm like making oat milk and Hishiki salad and into the sourdough like lentil stews, like going to the little public library to learn a class on nut milks, like with two people before it, like you know you were ahead of your time.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Oatly should be calling you frankly.

Nadine Artemis:

Now, like I wouldn't, I probably wouldn't have oat milk because the phytic acid, you know I mean so it's like. But it was so great then because, like I was coming off of like sort of 80s food I mean we always ate well, but you know, it was just a whole other landscape of food back then. So it just it was so easy for me to just go, oh my god, like those body shot products that seemed different than you know, the Clinique and the Chanel and that kind of stuff. But then I was like looking at those labels and I really feel like I hold childhood. I'd look at the labels but we didn't know what those words meant. And every bottle had words that like I'm thinking the bathroom words that you didn't know what they meant. So you just think cosmetics are made of things that we don't know what they are.

Nadine Artemis:

But in grade nine I actually we had a science fair project And we could pick our own subject, which was just wild back then And I found a book on cosmetics at the library And I mean I love the whole book. And then there was a chapter on perfumery And that I was just I mean it's fascinating by everything, but it was so neat to hear about the history and the distillation of plants And like we didn't have that information available sort of at our fingertips before, and so it was connecting stuff to real and like Cleopatra using like crocodile fat, and I was like all over that. And it talked about the distillations being these things called essential oils and you know probably find my health in store. So my mom like took me to the health in store, which we had to go like drive two hours to get to because they were not everywhere, and that's where I got my first whiffs of like Jasmine Yolane orange, and I know it's not like I could discern the whole shield between naturals and synthetics at that point, but it spoke to me in a whole different way and definitely planted seeds of like what to expect in the future.

Nadine Artemis:

And I remade perfume for that project, i remade L'artitane using essential oils, so that was super fun. But you know I didn't like the essential oils faded for a bit And then I'm looking at all my labels of the skincare And it was just so like Oh, it's kind of was fun because I was like I can actually, because I love to mix and concoct, but it was just like you know, with remixing stuff. You know I'd mix, like my mom, chanel perfume with the baby powder or something. But now I got to like endeavor and do it, and even the Swedish beauty secrets had some very simple recipes, you know. And then I just started going deep and getting into the world of essential oils, you know, as I'm going to school and you know writing to distillers and getting samples in different oils that were just even if they were, you know, regular, like a tea tree or a lavender, there is just. They were so dynamic and so alive And I realized there was such a variance in quality of what was the commonly available to these true distillations.

Nadine Artemis:

And then i just started making all kinds of things And having them be active, so like the oil would take care of spider veins or xima You know recipes for acne. And then fun things like perfumes or lip balm, and i would make the lip balm in all, like film canisters Are the body oil i would make. In there is this beautiful blue glass at the time. So i like recycle the blue glass bottles. Corks Is very homemade, but it was like people were having fun and results and that was really cool, although i don't think it's.

Nadine Artemis:

It's like much competition because i feel like really, when you get into the whole Chemical world of skin care, which you know might have a temporary sort of plumping that day or lubrication or whatever there's, just you know it's creating little vicious cycles in our body or throwing things off so that other things, you know, you have to Rebalance. On one level. I think to make skin care that works is not really hard, because most of it doesn't work at all. You know that makes sense. Yes, it was just fun because i finally got to make things and then i was also studying a lot with women studies, and that was fun because we were going into reading things like our bodies ourselves And like understanding birth control, which you know that was so amazing to just think about it in different ways.

Nadine Artemis:

I did a project on midwifery. I did my thesis on female orgasm in western Culture. So it's really great because i was and i was really seeing sort of you know the history of bodies, because nobody's really had a fair shake on one level, because there's a lot of strange things that we've done in the name of health or beauty or whatever, but also really you know the history of women's bodies in the, the medicalization that's not needed, or the hysterectomies, the thyroid actamies, the mastectomies and And just, i just feel it was great to just make things that could provide. Like, you know, we all want to care, we all, and there's a. You know, there are things whether we're interviewing or not. There's just some basic things we got to do to like maintain Our hygiene, so to speak. So it just felt like, you know, there was a lot of purpose that wasn't just cosmetic.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Oh my gosh, there's so much there, because i mean that purpose shows through in the quality of the products that you put out there, with living liabations and what goes into them, and, obviously, the way that you share information in the book. I'm curious you talked about effective skin care right, and about how some skin care can offer, you know, a pumping effect for today, but you know it creates an imbalance, let's say, in the biome of the skin or, you know, an imbalance on another level. And i would love to get your perspective on what is your overarching philosophy on skin care and like how these products should work, because i think that is one of the things that I pulled from the book that was so unique. First of all, there was like a whole body approach to things, but also efficacy, i think can be defined one way, which is like oh, it's shown, it makes the, the wrinkles appear to be less deep, but what is it actually doing for you? and i'm curious what is your perspective And what is your philosophy on skin care?

Nadine Artemis:

Well, i think like sort of first do no harm and i don't. Yeah, i don't know if i. I mean, i think i have many philosophies in there. I don't know if i have a quick, succinct answer. So i think once we get off like the chemicals because there's no poor or sell in our body, that's like parts for petroleum and it's derivatives there's just nothing that will thrive with that.

Nadine Artemis:

And we can maybe, you know, maybe neutral, maybe get our skin care neutral to like olive oil or something. And believe me, if you just use olive oil as a general body moisturizer for the rest of your life And not use like commercial products, you'd be so much better off just with that alone. And obviously olive oil is like there's nutrients there. It's like beyond neutral, but on a sort of topical level. But why stop at neutral, right, like why not get things activated? mitochondrial medicine, like you know, if it's not compatible and making the mitochondrial thrive, then like why bother? You know so.

Nadine Artemis:

There's many things that the, the ingredients that we use, do like that we could talk about for a long time, like boosting the immune system or inhibiting the enzymes that break down collagen and elastin, or the cellular renewal, for example. You know so. So the essential oils, which is a big part of our palate, when they're real and genuine, i mean they're like mitochondrial medicine, they're helping that thrive. And you know, if you're going to be taking that moment, that minute to apply something, then like let it work. That's what I just feel about. You know pretty much most things I'm doing. If I'm eating, like let it be nourishing, for God's sakes like I don't have time for anything else.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Absolutely. I love that. I love the notion of kind of getting back to the basics of you know, is it harming or helping, not just in terms of appearance but the longevity and the health? and like recognizing, as you talk about in the book, that it is all connected right, like your skin is actually an organ and I think people forget that. People forget that your skin is an organ and I think that reframe is so, so, so powerful, so powerful.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

So, in talking about your skin being an organ, one of the things that I'm quite excited about because it's coming out in science but you definitely talk about it I've heard you talk about it on a different podcast is just recognizing, you know, balance versus imbalance of even things like the biome or microbiome of the skin. Can you talk a bit about that? because I think people are, you know, when they think about the microbiome, they predominantly only think about the microbiome in the gut, but you definitely go into describing the gut kind of extending into the mouth, but also there's like a balance or imbalance on your skin And, yeah, i'd love if you could share with our audience really, what should they know about that?

Nadine Artemis:

Yeah, well, as maybe gross as it sounds, we're basically host to this bacterial banquet and we've got to provide a good environment and not an environment for a pathogen party, so to speak. And pre-2000s, we didn't really even know about the microbiome. In the 80s we thought the stomach was a sterile environment, for example, and it was very sort of genome and cell base. But we have billions of bacteria, just like we have billions of cells, and they're just huge systems in the body And the microbiome is connected to, it's communicating with the entire body the endocrine system, the digestive system, the immune system, all of that.

Nadine Artemis:

The skin is a huge part of our immune system. It's like receiving all the information. Obviously there's our mouths and noses and that, but the skin is a big intake, a big part of our nervous system, a big part of our communication system, and we're basically it's a tapestry that's teeming with trillions of microbes and we've got to care for that. And basically most modern skin care, oral care, is messing with the microbiome And we've sort of had also in the previous decades this sort of scorched earth policy, whether it's agriculture or you know, there's a war on germs sort of starting in the 40s, which is sort of why we also have this overuse of antibiotics, which are sort of these indiscriminate assassins, so yeah, so they're sort of like antibiotics anti-life is really biotic being life And of course they have their place. But we're totally at an antibiotic-resistant phase because they've been overprescribed, overutilized and they're everywhere, even if you don't take them.

Nadine Artemis:

But if you're drinking milk, for example, there's allowable limits of tetracycline in every liter, for example like normal milk, you know, obviously, codier, farmer, whatever, get a better quality, but you know the most of the way a lot of people are eating And so this is all. and then the skincare is like all of that sort of mutating the microbes on our body, mutating the species, and we really actually want to allow the bacteria to be the beautician. So when we're looking into an area of like, how are we going to work that area? How are we going to work with the skin? How are we going to work with the teeth?

Nadine Artemis:

I like to kind of step back, obviously undo what we've learned, and just think well, the body was so intelligently designed, like everything on the planet is, you know, like that ant that can pollinate a flower, or the dung beetle that's like pollen, specifically pollinating the lotus flowers. you know, there's just the dragonflies are pollinating those plants and the bees are doing other, and it's just like, right, this intricate thing that we're. there's so many mysteries we're never going to know them all. But you know, and at the same time, we weren't born with a toothbrush in our hand, we weren't born with, like you know, a bottle of cream to moisturize. So what are the body systems that are doing it without us thinking about it, without us controlling it. So how can we get that engaged and active and get out of the way of those systems Because I like to make things easy And then, if we are coming in with this external solution, then how can it be compatible with our biology, you know? and that's sort of where I look to for the answers.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

So important and, frankly, you're actually one of the first skin experts that I've ever heard talking about this specifically, and I speak to this actually from a very personal level because I'm somebody who suffers from eczema. For eczema, typically steroids are prescribed. I've suffered from topical steroid withdrawal in the past where when I tried to stop taking the steroids because I took them for as long as they were prescribed which was like excessively I had a rebound reaction that essentially covered my body and eczema. And you know when that happened to me? ironically, antibiotics helped me. Like it brought that down And what ended up healing my skin? because I said no completely to steroids? they wanted to inject me with prednisone. I was like obviously this is not sustainable, like this is just a long term bandaid.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

I ended up doing UV therapy And you talk about the sun a lot, which we'll definitely get into, but I still do UV therapy UVB therapy in addition to going outside, because you know, i don't have a lot of sun here in California in the wintertime It gets pretty rainy, but that is the thing that helped me And when I looked up what it does, it literally lowers inflammation and it kills bacteria on the skin, and so it's just so fascinating to me that we aren't talking about the fact that you know there is bacteria on the skin and we need to protect that.

Nadine Artemis:

And when there is a flare up like an eczema or a psoriasis, it shows that like there's a full, you know microbiome distress and drop in activity in that area. And rosacea, for example, is, you know, it looks like the inflamed sort of reddish cheeks but there's a dermadex mite And it's actually, you know, really easy to clear up. It's the right topical thing. You think about all the irritation things that we're doing, like every jar is irritating right on one level. You may be, just not be like you were obviously more prone to skin inflammation and irritation. So people that sort of just have a normal response. They're you know they're going to be fine, they're not going to pick up on that irritation. But then there's a story underneath, you know, that might take decades to play out.

Nadine Artemis:

And I think what also, when I'm looking for skin solutions or body solutions, we want to. you know I'm so not into the band-aids. We can't band-aid our way out of this because it's going to come back, because you haven't dealt with it, you know. And again, we don't always know how to deal with it. We don't know because, you know there's not a lot of resources. Sometimes, you know, we have to research it really hard. Maybe you're in a condition that you don't feel like doing that, or you know what I mean, that kind of thing. So I really like getting to the root of things so that we can actually have a solution.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Absolutely. I love that, oh my gosh. So you know, for folks who are listening, who are just like, okay, i've heard about antibiotic resistance. I'm a little nervous about this. You know, i've been prescribed quite a bit in my life and I've been using conventional products my entire life What are just a couple of ways that we can start to think about rebuilding the biome right And I guess it does come from the inside out, so that may be dietary, you know thinking about product switches, like what are kind of these standards that we should start to move towards, because that's another thing. That is like this big unknown box, like, okay, you've messed up the balance, now what do you do about it? How do you come back into balance? and you know, is it everything at once? What would you recommend?

Nadine Artemis:

Yeah, sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's just like you know, the removal of one thing In Renegade Beauty. I talk about a stop, seal and seed and you can kind of apply that to different areas. So first, just you want to stop And that you have to kind of think about. You know, is it your shower filter that you just need like a $30 shower filter? so you're getting like a lot of the chlorine out, because the chlorine can create what's that called dandruff, like what's that thing called, or it would totally be irritating your already eczema, those kind of things. Or you know, maybe your laundry detergent is irritating your eczema, but for some it's deeper than that, for some it is just a switch. And then I talk about, if we're talking about skin, like oil cleansing, which is just an ancient way of cleansing the skin and it really works because it's not messing with the lipid barriers, it's not adding things that then make the body try and compensate with like more oil production or dryness or hyperpigmentation. You don't you want to get out of the body reacting. So you want to kind of assess things And I do have you know, sections that like stop this and like spell a list. That's what I'm trying to say I got lists of things that you can kind of check in with And then seal. So you want to seal and heal. So maybe it's like you're going to stop eating glyphosates and then you're working on sealing and healing the gut or sealing and healing the skin, because a lot of the chemicals are disruptive, you know, keeping, you know not healthy for the pores. So that would be sealing, oil cleansing. Sealing in the mouth would be like stop using sodium, laurel sulfate toothpaste. That like could be making your gum pocket, your gum's recede or your gum's bleed. And like YoniCare and the microbiome there, like stop wearing polyester underwear or using KY jelly, that kind of stuff. So to seal is like then getting that new practice in and then seed is, yeah, reseeding the area.

Nadine Artemis:

So if it's we're reseeding the guts, yes, so seeding. And like you know, for the guts you could be bringing in some prebiotics, some probiotics which we all know and love. And then there's postbiotics which like a butyrate it's usually made from a fermented, like a calcium magnesium Oh, so good. And the colonocytes in the colon. That's what they're trying to extract from the fiber, the butyrate. So that's really good. You can even do like oil pulling, add a probiotic to your little oil pulling thing and, like you know, start reseeding the mouth. Or you know doing a honey mask which has natural probiotics, or you know even adding a capsule of a probiotic to that, for example. So there's so many ways and there's lots of suggestions in the book, but you want to stop. Whatever is like causing the harm. Seal that area up and then reseed it.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

I love that kind of three step process because it feels like there's like an element of kind of healing and bringing everything back to balance. I'm curious for people who switch from conventional products and I'm really just thinking about the audience out there. That's like okay. Like maybe I'm starting to feel a little convinced. I, you know, have heard about toxic versus non-toxic beauty and why eat organic. Have you found that when people switch to products that are non-toxic, is there a period of like a withdrawal period that happens, like, for example, what had happened with me with steroids? I mean, i think that's a unique case because I was on medication, but what can people expect as they transition? or is it just this immediate? oh my gosh, i feel so much better. You know, my skin's glowing, everything's in sync, because I think that's something that comes up a lot Like on Reddit. You can see like, oh, purging period and stuff like that. What?

Nadine Artemis:

are your thoughts on that? I would say, well, again, you know. And then what are you replacing it with? So, hopefully good stuff. I'd say, like 90% of the time, nothing, nothing at all. You know, like taking away that polyester underwear and that KY jelly. It's all just uphill from there, or whatever. Downhill, uphill, whatever the good hill is.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

We're going up, we're going up.

Nadine Artemis:

It was down, now it's up.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Yeah.

Nadine Artemis:

And then like switching for your skin, which I would find amazing is, like people, they can have decades or you know they can have it for a long time. And I'm definitely into thinking about diet and like the changes that we would need because, especially with acne, you know there's probably something congested with the liver or the guts, you know the digestive system and really obviously the liver is a part of that. So there can be. But what I find amazing is that people can just switch how they're cleansing their face And what clears up without changing the diet is so phenomenal. You know that it and then that might give you the energy to look at the other stuff, cause now you're like, oh, i can relax about my skin. You know I feel like you've got a level of confidence that's come back up. So I love that about cause I always think you know you got to.

Nadine Artemis:

You know the diet or something would obviously be deeper, but just that switch And it's so much. You know you can switch, change up how you're washing your face. So easy. It's not like a whole diet overhaul. And for the face specifically, sometimes like about five, five to 10% of the time, you know if there can be a transition where you're then detoxing just the stuff from before and that's going to be different for everybody. But most of the time I don't see that at all, and if it is that, then you just have to kind of ride out that moment and you know it only lasts a couple of weeks.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

And you talk about that in the book the fact that our body is regenerating, our cells are kind of turning over, and so there is an opportunity. You know, even if you haven't up until this point, if you've been consuming, i don't know, antibiotic ridden milk forever and all these kind of products that aren't good for you, you can still make a choice, a different choice, today, and have the opportunity to move forward with a body that is just optimized for real health and glow right.

Nadine Artemis:

Mm-hmm. Yeah, i think like I remember just thinking as a kid. Like you know, we're hanging out for a while, me and my body, so let's just figure this out and like have a good relationship, you know, and be at ease, because I think it's like the body burden can be one of the biggest things for people. It's not going anywhere.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

That actually brings up a question that's been on my mind since the beginning of this interview had to like, ease us in here. There are some really crazy beauty standards out there and we're going to talk about like just the general beauty standards. I mean with the filters and, by the way, i'm going to be really raw and real here for a moment. I took a break off of social media or I have somebody else managing that for me because being on there was just so toxic and I recorded a video the other day of myself without a filter and I really had to come to terms with that.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Like there was an element of like, oh my gosh, like this is so uncomfortable and it's just become so embedded into our society. Right, like that, just the way that you are is not right. Like this is what's attractive, fit into this mold. And then there's a whole other narrative, even more when it comes to aging. It's like anti-aging. I want to know, like as a absolutely beautiful, magnificent, accomplished, incredible woman, like, how did you personally, how did you work with these pressures that come up, especially working in the beauty industry and literally writing a beauty book?

Nadine Artemis:

Yeah, well, i feel like you know, a while ago, i think again as the teen, i looked at the magazines and blah, blah, blah, and then I just like ditched it all at 18. And I actually didn't have any. I just really didn't pay attention to any media until the goddamn iPhone, which I even didn't have for a while, until about 2012 is when first had the smartphone. So I mean, i think that was great, you know, and just like understanding who I am before I'm looking to get influenced, and you know, i think we got to get a grip on our thoughts and comparison in general is a good thing, you know.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Yeah, I don't know where I was going with all of that.

Nadine Artemis:

But yeah, it's just you got to find it, you know, within, because your face things will change and shift. And yeah, you got to get I don't know, just keep writing it. That's why, again, i'm like I'm kind of I mean, my focus is beauty and health and I'm kind of glad because I think it was going to we got. We kind of all have to have a bit of focus on our bodies going through this lifetime anyway, and you could not pay attention. But I think at some point, like I never, yeah, i just I always want to just know my body. Like even one of my dental advice is like get that little dental mirror, know what's going on in the back of your mouth, like know your body so you're not afraid of it. And so I I'm glad that it's like you know my lifestyle is to know my body, because, yeah, because it just is like I think it's all got to be a little project of our to just know ourselves how we're moving through space and time.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

I feel like that it's. It sounds to me, as you're here, as you're describing this, like that level of intimacy with yourself It brings up like a stronger relationship, because I think, you know and there are so many stats to support this but so many women, young girls, are suffering from body dysmorphia and a real inner self hatred, and this is something that I will openly admit, like I struggled with in my youth, and only recently did I, you know, kind of start to formulate a very different attitude and perspective on that. But it's just so, you know, to get out of that place is so difficult. One of the one of the problems is, i think, that it's hard to find those voices Yours is one of them, which is why I was so pumped about that. But to find voices that are thinking differently and to also get to that place where you're building a relationship with your body And you know, when you have that positive relationship or any relationship, you, you feel a little bit more responsible for that. Do no harm, piece right.

Nadine Artemis:

And you know there's always going to be somebody that's richer, skinnier. You know, if we think of like what is that expression? like you can never be too rich or too skinny, i mean, you know, i guess you can't, but I'm just saying like there's always something going to be more beautiful, more, whatever your, whatever you think success is somebody's always going to have more. And so just give it all up, Just don't even run that race, just opt out. You know it doesn't mean you have to opt out of society, but just opt out of those games.

Nadine Artemis:

You know, and yes, i mean, the Hall of Mirrors right now is super intense And our poor, our teen daughters, obviously, or just our daughters, do, for whatever reason it is, affecting women so much more. I just, i don't, i don't even think we have the self-esteem as a society to almost go into this discussion, because the foundation is not even there. But hopefully, you know, the sunshine will prevail. Yeah, i think it's for women, for girls right now, our teens, it's like, yeah, 150% increase in body dysmorphia in the past few years.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

It's crazy And you know, i mean there was recent research published and I'll cite this for folks in the link below but about just the connection obviously between social media and that. And I mean it's not about whether social media is evil or not. It is such a way of like connecting with people, but it also offers the opportunity for comparison. So I think that real awareness of your thoughts and recognizing when that's coming up is just so crucial. You mentioned that we don't have the foundational self-esteem as a society to like properly even tackle that. What do you mean by that?

Nadine Artemis:

On one level. Yeah, i mean it's hard to even know where to begin that discussion because, you know, I don't know, like I mean I try and raise my son in different ways, but it's not like I have the full solution to that, but we just aren't, we're just everything's so externalized. So I feel like, you know, it was like we're really caught up in the veneer of things, and so I think we've got to, yeah, deepen the inward life for outward stability, and that's where the rich work is, that's where the soil is, you know, and we've got to just stop looking outside ourselves for our entertainment. Again, again, of course it's not. I mean, i again, i have the social media apps, i'm fully engaged in society, but, like, get that juice going inside first, you know.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Amen to that. Nadine, i have to say this was such an incredible conversation. We are running up on time, so I would love to I know time flies when you're having fun I'd love to first check in and see are there any? are there two more words you wanted to add to your three word description? Yeah, you said thinking anything else, or we could just cut it out. That's fine too.

Nadine Artemis:

I think I'm renegade, and it was fun to take that spirit I had as a child and as a teen and then, yeah, bring it forward to sort of more purposeful rebellion, which is kind of how I think of renegade-ness. Rebellion's fine too, though, and I think I do. I think I do have self knowledge, and I think that's something early on that in various ways, whether you know, it was like looking in for philosophers or different things. You know, i just kept trying to know myself, because I feel like that's how you can get that energy PS going, how you can sort of navigate. More is just knowing that self knowledge.

Nadine Artemis:

I think I saw, as a kid too, a lot of adults, you know, just sort of like wake up or different things, or they're like 50 and they're like, oh my God, why am I married? and in this house or whatever, you know you can see that played out in so many different ways And I was just like no, no, you know how can you like live and then go? oh my God, where am I like you? you know, just know.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

I love that. Having that self awareness and that self connection earlier on, I mean that is so crucial, so crucial. Nadine, I know folks are going to want to connect with you. I'm going to hyperlink everything below, but where can people find you and do you have anything exciting coming up that you'd like to share with our audience? I'll be raving about your books, So like it's going to be in there, but anything else please, other than I think there's just always exciting projects on the go.

Nadine Artemis:

It's just my mind is just always percolating and then the new things come out. I mean there's so much going on all the time I can't almost pick anything out, in a way like you know what I mean. But there's, there'll be eventually a book on the sun, so that'll be fun, and there's always new projects. And yeah, other than that, we've got our website and through there, like really you can email us anything And we'll do our best to answer or hopefully set you up with some resources. You know, health, dental, beauty. We also do free consults. There's a bit, you know it's usually about a month or two waiting time, but they're really good. Everybody's deeply educated by me. You know we consult together and you know we have like bridal parties show up or like best friends are like whole multi-generational families, like it's really sweet just asking dental questions and stuff. So we do that. We like keeping it real. Yeah, instagram generally, i mean we're on all the things, but I think that's sort of the more the most active, all right.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Well, folks, i'm going to link that all below and, nadine, i'm going to have a multi-generational consult with my mom, so stay tuned for that. Oh yeah, oh yeah, we are coming in hot. So thank you so, so much. Thank you for the gifts you put out into the world and for being here. It was such a joy.

Nadine Artemis:

It was a pleasure, thank you.

Kasia Stiggelbout:

Thanks everyone. See you next time. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Nourish. If you enjoyed this conversation, please leave a review. Five Star Reviews helped the podcast grow and I'm so grateful for that. I publish new episodes twice a month, so hit the subscribe button to be notified And, if you want to stay connected in between episodes, join my community on Instagram and TikTok at nourish underscore podcast. All right, that's all I got for you today. See you next time.

Renegade Beauty With Nadine Artemis
Exploring Self-Care and Natural Beauty
Skin Microbiome Balance Importance
Natural Skincare and Overcoming Standards
Renegade Beauty and Self-Knowledge

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