The Other Way

077: [FEMALE HEALTH] Overcoming Cancer and Embracing Holistic Wellness

• Kasia Stiggelbout • Season 2 • Episode 77

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Today we have another hormonal health deep dive for you all: we’re covering female life stages of fertility into perimenopause with Integrative Nutrition Health Coach, Maddy Pollack. Maddy’s story is kind of wild: After surviving cancer at 25 years old, she became passionate about nutrition, movement and mindfulness in order to get more control over her own health and to help others do the same. Maddy dove into the world of female hormones a few years later when she realized her stress levels were causing her own hormones to be out of balance.

We cover so much today - in really what feels like a conversation not just an interview. Some topics:

- Maddy’s journey with cancer at a young age: not just the experience but navigating the mental aspect of such a harrowing diagnosis
- The power of food, movement, and mindfulness for health
- Debunking misconceptions about food and hormonal health: teaser, protein isn’t all you think it is babes
- How the workouts you’re doing might be messing up your hormones
- Why mindfulness is so important for hormonal regulation + non meditation ways to practice mindfulness
- Maddy’s own wellness routine

+ so much more!

 About Maddy:

Maddy Pollack is an Integrative Nutrition Health Coach, specializing in Women's Hormone Health & Balance. After surviving cancer at 25 years old, she became passionate about nutrition, movement and mindfulness in order to get more control over her own health and to help others do the same. Maddy dove into the world of female hormones a few years later when she realized her stress levels were causing her own hormones to be out of balance. She now guides clients in learning more about their own specific menstrual cycle, syncing foods & movement with their cycle, reducing stress levels through mindfulness and improving their overall wellbeing through a sustainable nutrition approach.

To connect with Maddy:
 
IG: maddypollack_health 

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To connect with Kasia

Kasia:

Hello and welcome to the Other Way, a lifestyle podcast exploring uncommon, unconventional or otherwise alternative approaches to life, business and health. I'm your host, kasia. I'm the founder of InFlow, a women's wellness brand that designs intentional products to help women reconnect to their unique cyclical rhythm and find a balance between being and doing. This podcast is an extension of my mission within flow. Here we provide intentional interviews with inspiring humans, trailblazers, researchers, spiritual teachers and more on the journey of doing things the other way. On the journey of doing things the other way. Hi everyone, welcome back to the show.

Kasia:

Today we have another hormonal deep dive for you all. We are covering female life stages, of fertility into perimenopause, with integrative nutrition health coach Maddy Pollack. I feel like this podcast has been due for an episode truly diving into in a deep way nutrition, movement and mindfulness for hormonal health, and Maddy is the perfect guest for this. Truly. I just wrapped up my conversation with her and it is just chock full of information. Maddy's story is kind of wild. After surviving cancer at 25 years old, she became passionate about nutrition, movement and mindfulness in order to get more control over her own health and to help others do the same, and Maddy dove into the world of female hormones a few years later, when she realized her stress levels were causing her own hormones to be out of balance.

Kasia:

We cover so much today in what really feels like a conversation and not just an interview. I mean, it just really flowed. Some of the topics that we talked about today include Maddy's journey with cancer at such a young age not just the experience itself, but navigating the mental aspect of such a harrowing diagnosis. We then dive into the power of food, movement and mindfulness for health. We debunk misconceptions about food and hormonal health. Teaser for you all Protein isn't all you think it is. We're going to talk about how the workouts you're doing might be messing up your hormones, why mindfulness is so important for hormonal regulation, and we're also going to be tapping into some alternatives to meditation for practicing mindfulness. We're going to cover Maddy's own wellness routine and so much more. Tune in, enjoy and, without further ado, let's jump on into this episode. Maddy, welcome to the podcast.

Maddy Pollack:

Hello, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

Kasia:

I'm so excited as well. I know we kind of played around with the timing for months now, so the anticipation has been building and I'm just so excited to have you here. We have so much to cover. But before I dive into all of that, I want to start by asking you could you share three words about yourself? Like work, really not work related? Just how would you describe yourself in three words?

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, okay, so you did send this question ahead of time so I had some time to think about it. These are the three that I came up with. This was hard. I like googled words Like overachiever geez, I was like I don't know, I've been asked that, like since an interview probably 10 years ago. I love it.

Kasia:

But it was funny. I've stumped like Stanford professors with this one by the way. Like I had, like I had like sleep researchers on before and like there was like a silence for 15 minutes that I thought about the question.

Maddy Pollack:

That's so funny. Well, it's funny because all the words were like resume words. You know what I mean. Okay, but the three I chose were adaptable, loving and passionate.

Kasia:

Okay, I love that those all come through based on what I know about you. So I I always love it when that happens, because it feels like the way that you show up online which is how we met is the way that you are in real life, which is pretty cool.

Maddy Pollack:

I try to be authentic and, you know, share as much as I can online.

Kasia:

Yeah, and that word adaptable, like wow. That really just really sets us up well for the very first question I have here, which is you have a pretty wild journey of becoming a health coach, because it starts with like a rock bottom in your own health life and at a very young age. So could you share a bit of your backstory with our audience?

Maddy Pollack:

Yes, yeah, definitely yeah. So when I was 24 years old, I was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma, which is type of blood cancer, and I found out because I was, for like a year, was having chest pain and then it got really bad, where I was getting like shortest of breath. The chest pain was getting worse. I had two swollen lymph nodes in my left armpit. I had night sweats like every night, and so I went to the ER. When I was in, I was on a flight back from London for work for my job at the time and on the flight my chest was hurting. It felt like I was like having a heart attack. I was terrified. So I got back to Austin, which is where I was living at the time Austin, texas and I went in.

Kasia:

How old were you, by the way, at this point? How old were you?

Maddy Pollack:

24. Wow, 24. Yeah, so it was six years ago. I'm 30 now and so, yeah, so I went to urgent care. They did an EKG which came back weird. So they were like you need to go to the ER. So I went to the ER and they did immediately like an x-ray and really right away the doctor that came in was like you probably have lymphoma and I was like I had to Google lymphoma. I was like I don't even know that is. And it said cancer and I'm like you're crazy. Like I don't have cancer, I feel healthy. Like, besides, you know, the chest pain I just thought was like a muscle and like you make up all these kind of excuses in your head because you never think it's that worst case scenario. But but then, after lots of tests and going back and forth, they found officially that it was Hodgkin's lymphoma. So, yeah, crazy. So that was. I was officially diagnosed August 1st 2018.

Kasia:

Whoa, oh, my gosh. Okay, I'm curious, like what were those first three to six months for you, mentally speaking?

Maddy Pollack:

six months for you, mentally speaking. It was kind of interesting, like honestly, after the diagnosis, like official, this is what you have and this is what we're going to do. It was actually a relief because I like had no idea what was going on with my body and so I was like okay, like we have a plan. It was it's a very, very high cure rate, like 99%, that the treatment is going to work for Hodgkin's lymphoma. So very lucky in that sense, like a very good prognosis. So I was never terrified of like not living, to be honest, but was definitely scared of chemo. I had to do chemo and radiation, so those next three to six months was treatment essentially. So I moved back home, I lived with my brother and his family and just went through the treatment, which was crazy.

Kasia:

I can't even imagine right Like I reflect on the things that were really present in my life at the age of 24. And like you don't consider cancer being something that you're ever going to be faced with at that age.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, it's so wild and it's hard because, like you don't really have anyone to relate to. I did join like a support group, for AYA is what the community is called, but it's adolescent, young adult cancer patients and survivors and I joined that, which was like literally lifesaving, because that was kind of the only space I had where it felt like I could connect with people on that level, cause, of course, friends and family aren't going to understand. You know what you're going through. So, yeah, it can be isolating, for sure, but it's so important for anyone that's listening that has been affected by cancer to find like a community that can understand.

Kasia:

I asked because about kind of your mental state during this time, because I think it's so interesting.

Kasia:

You know, day to day at least I'll share in my own experience and in you know kind of with the friends that are around me, and I think, like a lot of what you hear online, like there's just so much worrying and future projection and like fear of the unknown, and we're just like, I think, constantly grappling with that, like in different capacities, at like a younger age it's I'm dating this guy and what's going to happen, like trying to control the situation.

Kasia:

Or maybe you're getting married and you're trying to like plan the perfect wedding, you know, and you kind of think about all these different situations, but then you're faced with like a medical diagnosis that just changes your priorities entirely and I find it just pretty, not like fascinating, like whoa, like this is like me being a researcher, but I think it's actually very inspiring for people to hear other in this case the audience is primarily female, but other women to hear other women tell their story about these situations where they're truly helpless, and actually how you handle that from a mental point of view and like the presence that it sounds like you're describing kind of just immediately like things reset and you're, like in the present moment, dealing with it.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, yeah. It's so interesting how cancer impacts like the ways that our brain works and our. It's really like trauma, so we tend to have a lot of PTSD. I work with cancer survivors and cancer patients and I've now worked with hundreds of them of cancer survivors and what I have found literally in every single one of us is that during treatment, you're in survival mode, so you're just like I've got to get through this. There's, like you know, some questioning maybe, but for the most part, you're like in it, you're going to get through it, and then, when active treatment ends, is when shit kind of hits the fan and it's kind of like because you're seeing doctors all the time right during treatment, and then, when it's over, your doctor's like okay, we'll see you in three months for your next scan, make sure everything's clear, and you're like wait, but like what the hell just happened?

Maddy Pollack:

I just went through this very traumatic experience and now I don't know what to do, how to take care of my body, how to take care of my mind, and so I went through that pretty roughly like that was like the hardest time for me was those three months actually went after treatment ended, and that was when everything shifted for me when I learned how to better manage my anxiety, like get into therapy, like all of those different things, so that it's just an interesting thing that a lot of people don't think about, Because a lot of people think to people that are close to cancer patients and survivors. A lot of people will think like, oh, you're clear, like you should be so happy and enjoy life and like you're just like this new person. And in reality it's like no, this was really scary, and now that the rug was pulled out from under me, my brain thinks that it can be pulled out from under me at any point, so it's really dealing with that like on a day to day basis.

Kasia:

It sounds like also relearning to trust your body and like build a relationship where you can feel safe in your body, right, because it's like you weren't expecting, like this was probably the last thing you were expecting, especially at your age. So, yeah, oh my gosh, that is wild. So was that kind of the aha moment, kind of like after treatment that inspired you to pursue health coaching? Like what kind of made you make that connection between how your diet, your lifestyle, your mindset impacts your health?

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah. So I went to my doctor for my three months checkup and me and my parents were like, is there something I should be doing differently in order to like avoid this happening again or risk, you know, disease later in life or all these other side effects that come with treatment? And he didn't really have an answer for me. Like I love my doctor, he was amazing, but he was very focused on the treatment part of things and so really his only answer was like don't eat red meat. So I stopped eating red meat.

Maddy Pollack:

I listened to that one piece but that was really it.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, exactly, and I just figured in my brain like if I got cancer in this environment my physical, like body environment once, then I could get it again if I don't change some things.

Maddy Pollack:

And so then, random, this was like the actual specific moment I was at a conference for my old job, which was in marketing and advertising, and I was at this like advertising conference and one of the girls there that I was with she was explaining how she's doing this like side kind of business, starting with education around nutrition, and she's helped her dad lose weight and he feels so much better and all these different things, and that was like I was like, oh, like I think I want to learn how nutrition impacts my body and like help other people feel better. It was just like a click and I remember like going up to the hotel room calling my mom crying. I'm like I hate this conference. I don't know why I'm here. I want to help people, like I need to do something in my life, and that's what like sparked it. And then I found the health coaching program that I did and loved it and it just like changed my entire life.

Kasia:

I love how so many of these transformations start with like a crying phone call to like I definitely definitely remember one of those, but I feel like, unlike you, like kudos to you.

Kasia:

I had one of those in 2014 or something like that, a while ago, okay or no. Even before that it must have been like 2012, because it was right after my first yoga retreat, where I was just like kind of taken to a different world. And then I come back. I, too, worked in advertising at the time, but like on the tech side, and I just remember like going to this conference winning awards during the day and then like crying at night to my mom. So I'm just proud of you for taking the leap, like when you heard it go, you, I mean. I guess cancer puts life in perspective. So there's that?

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah for sure. Yeah, that definitely pushed me and I found like if something's calling you, it's calling you for a reason. Like, just do it, who knows what will come from it. Usually so much more comes from it than we even expect. I've definitely learned that through my cancer experience, because I never expected I would do anything like this ever. I thought I would just stay in marketing and, you know, climb the corporate ladder and just you know, that's it.

Kasia:

So yeah, thank you. Now living a totally different life. I love it. I know it's crazy. Yeah, in addition to working with cancer patients, I know you have a huge passion for hormonal health. So can you kind of talk about how your health coaching and the focus that you had, how it started to shift into hormonal health, and maybe can you also share for the audience, like especially for the women out there? Yeah, why are our hormones so important? I'd love to hear.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, I'll start with why our hormones are so important, because it is truly amazing what our hormones do for our bodies and the fact that we, like, don't learn this in school. But our hormones are so much more than just estrogen and progesterone. Right, we have over 50 hormones and they all, kind of like, impact one another a little bit in our bodies, and our hormones impact every single organ and tissue in our body literally, and estrogen and progesterone are kind of like the ones that we really focus on, of course, because they are the kind of leaders of our menstrual cycle, which impacts so much, right, our mood, bloating our weight, all the things, how we feel week to week. So, yes, hormones are so important and so important for us to pay attention to, especially as women. And how I kind of got there was so, I think, like three years.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, I've probably been focusing on the hormone health piece for about two years now, and so, three years after treatment, I still hadn't really gotten my period back fully.

Maddy Pollack:

It was super irregular, I've never had regular periods, but just, I was so much in tune, so much more in tune with my body after treatment and doing health coaching and like felt like I was doing all the right things, but this piece was still not coming back, which felt like a disconnect for me and I was getting headaches every day.

Maddy Pollack:

I was like super anxious again, even though I felt like I was like doing all the right stuff meaning eating healthy, moving my body a lot and so I went to my naturopath.

Maddy Pollack:

I found a naturopath which is like a holistic doctor essentially, and she did blood work and sat with me for 75 minutes, which like no doctor has ever done, and she looked at every single thing that you can imagine and was talking to me about how my cortisol was really high which was impacting my estrogen levels and that was probably impacting or not probably it was definitely impacting my cycle and headaches and mood and anxiety and all of that. So she gave me kind of a list of things to do. She gave me some supplements, like a tincture, and did all the things and then felt so much better no more headaches, menstrual cycle was starting to become more regular, all of that. So I was like, okay, I need to learn why this is all happening and I want to like help other women, because I know so many women have issues with their menstrual cycles and PMS symptoms and all that. So then I did an eight month hormone health coach certification, and then that's when my world opened up and I was just like this is so important.

Kasia:

A hundred percent, and I mean also just kind of thinking back to that original theme in your life, like how do you stay healthy, like knowing that there are so many hormones and knowing that each of those have like a domino like effect in our bodies. I mean, I think that that just it's so obvious how important that is. I'm curious to hear when it comes to kind of like the health coaching aspect of it, like what are some of the core pillars that that you look at today, Like when you think about hormonal health.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, that's a great question. So I focus on across really all my coaching, even if we're not super focused on hormones. I focus on nutrition, movement and mindfulness. Those three pillars are the main ones because we can all improve and work on those three areas, usually start with nutrition, then get into the movement and mindfulness piece after that.

Kasia:

And for women out there who aren't quite as familiar with, like what nutrition would look like for hormonal health, like what are some of the principles that you think about?

Maddy Pollack:

So nutrition, for hormone health. It's really, really important to have balanced meals, and what I mean by that? Because we want to make sure our blood sugar is regulated. Having irregular blood sugar or spikes can cause stress on our body which causes inflammation and then can also cause different hormones to be out of balance. What that means is we want to have, like veggies and fruits, protein, healthy fat and healthy carbs, ideally with every meal, and it doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't have to be every single meal.

Maddy Pollack:

I aim for like an 85-15 balance, with people where 85% of the time you're having healthy, balanced meals, 15% of the time maybe more fun indulgent foods because, like, we can never be perfect. So that takes away a little bit of that pressure. But yeah, so that's kind of what I look for For a visualization. It's like kind of half the plate to be veggies, fruits, third of the plate to be a great protein, ideally if you're eating meat like grass fed, organic, and then the rest of the plate to be a mix of healthy fats, healthy carbs. Healthy fats like avocados, olive oil, walnuts, seeds, healthy carbs, grains like farro or quinoa, brown rice, things like that.

Kasia:

How do we feel about bread? Oh, I love bread, okay, loaded question.

Maddy Pollack:

I would say the thing with bread is not can't, but we really shouldn't have it with every meal, ideally depending on weight, like management, if you want to lose weight or kind of maintain. I would say bread like once a day, essentially, so I wouldn't have it like breakfast, lunch and dinner and make sure you're having like bread that has no added sugar. Sourdough is a great option, whole grain is a great option. I love Ezekiel bread and then make sure you pair it with a protein and a healthy fat, ideally so that your blood sugar doesn't spike. But I love bread so I would never say not to eat bread, Thank God.

Kasia:

Just needed to check on that for a minute. I'm curious how, Because a lot of things have evolved over the past I don't even know like decade of how we've thought about food. Fasting is like all on the rise for a lot of people and I'm curious what your thoughts are about that. And not just like fasting before breakfast, let's say, but also fasting in between meals versus like eating smaller meals, Like does it actually make a difference when it comes to hormonal regulation?

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, that's a great question. So it depends on where you're at in your stage of life. So for menstruating women people who still get their period every month or almost every month, you know if you have regular periods that's okay too. But for menstruating women, ideally we're not fasting but fasting in between meals. So I do recommend like three meals during the day rather than like six smaller meal snacks, because you do want to give your body some time to digest and fast a little bit and get your metabolism to kind of like be in line, kind of like that we want to be hungry in the morning, like that's our metabolism telling us that it's working.

Maddy Pollack:

So I don't recommend intermittent fasting. If we fast too long it can actually spike our cortisol levels because our body thinks we're like in survival mode and then it can actually hold on to weight, so that can make it actually harder to lose weight. If you're in menopause or even perimenopause and you're starting to feel those impacts, fasting can be really helpful. I forget her name, but there's someone that is amazing and really specializes in the perimenopause world and I'll look it up for you after, and she has a great. Is it Gottfried? It might be her. Does she have a lot of information on fasting, I feel like she has a lot of books on this.

Kasia:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's probably her. We'll put it in the show notes below, anyway.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, I'll confirm, but it sounds familiar and so I've read some of her stuff and so for that piece it can be helpful. But you want to do it in like a smart way, you know, not just like not eating to not eat.

Kasia:

I know diet is like a huge part and I want to move on to every single pillar, but what are some misconceptions that you'd like to kind of break or, I don't know, flip on their heads, like when it comes to hormonal health and nutrition? Slash diet other than the bread one I feel like we already like debunk that you can have it.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, I feel like protein very important, but I feel like it's being kind of overhyped right now, where people are so focused on protein that we're losing kind of like veggies and fruits. Like I don't see any, or I rarely see people talking about the different vegetables for like vitamins and minerals as much as protein. And I see some people I just obviously like I'm in this world so on social media I see so much information which is very overwhelming even for me. But I see so many people like how I got 100 grams of protein, how I got 120 grams of protein, and it's like, okay, we don't all need like that much protein, necessarily, you know. So I recommend for that like 20 to 30 grams of protein per meal, ideally, and then plus all the other stuff too, because we really really need those vitamins and minerals from our vegetables and fruits.

Kasia:

I think that's a huge thing actually to consider, because you were sharing. Like a balanced plate looks like half the plate. You know veggies, fruits and veggies, right, and if we're only talking about protein, we're not. We're kind of like forgetting about that aspect. Just to put it in like a view for people to understand like 20 grams of protein, what does that look like Like visually?

Maddy Pollack:

or comparing that to something that, like, we're familiar with. Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. So if you eat meat, that's actually really easy. Like you're probably getting that if you have like chicken breast. Chicken breast is like 30, maybe 35 grams of protein. So if you eat meat it's fairly easy. Breakfast I find to be a little bit of a tough one. It's not everyone's eating like meat in the morning. Eggs are like only six grams of protein each egg, so I like to add to that a little bit. So maybe have like two or three eggs in the morning with like a tablespoon of chia seeds, which is, like, I think, three to five grams of protein. Maybe some different nuts or something on the side, maybe cottage cheese, maybe a little bit of Greek yogurt, something like that. It can easily add up essentially, but that's kind of like morning I find to be hard for people. But I find Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, all really great sources of protein. You just want to like add a little bit to them to get to that like 20 mark.

Kasia:

I love that. I will say the thing that I personally struggle with, because I can't have cottage cheese, like I can't have dairy, and it's not even it is the lactose thing, but it also is like I just break out like swear. I will have like a little bit of some sort of dairy. It doesn't even matter what it is. Heaps cheese is sometimes okay, but then literally two days later, boom, I'm just like you know, I've kind of already figured that out. Yeah, the breakfast is hard, Although I've gotten into some people are going to think this is so gross, but sometimes I'll have like a can of sardines and like it's real bread and I'm like this feels like this is like mega healthy. I mean, if you're into salty, savory stuff, you might like it. Yeah, sardines are actually really good for you. Yeah, they are right Like they have everything like fat, protein, all the things.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, totally, and that's another thing too. Like I think we get stuck in these rules of like what breakfast, lunch and dinner look like and they can actually look like however you want. Like you can have a dinner food for breakfast, it doesn't really matter, you know. So finding like what you like, too, is really important.

Kasia:

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Kasia:

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Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, that's a great question. Well, I don't know if the misconception is, like, everyone's kind of different right. So I think a lot, what's been going around a lot which is true is that if you do too much hit or like really high intensity classes all the time, that's messing up your hormones which, yes, it can, because it drives your cortisol up. And if your cortisol is already high, like if you're already anxious or stressed and your cortisol is continuing to be high from your workouts, then it's staying high, and then, if our cortisol is high, we don't produce enough progesterone, which then causes our estrogen to be too high as well. So I don't know if it's a misconception. I think, though, again, like, tuning into your body is very important and for our estrogen to be too high as well. So I don't know if it's a misconception. I think, though, again, like, tuning into your body is very important, and for a lot of people that's really hard, and I work a lot with clients on that too of, like, what feels good for you. Do you feel depleted after your workout? Do you feel more stressed out after your workout or do you feel good and ready and you have energy and all of that? So it's kind of hard to say because it's very dependent on the person a little bit.

Maddy Pollack:

I do think cycle syncing your workouts is super helpful and I can explain what that is, if that would be helpful. Yeah, so cycle syncing is essentially syncing the phases of your cycle. We have four. A lot of people don't even know that, but we have four phases and each one our hormones are doing very different things and so by aligning your workouts with each phase, you can help to support the hormones that are fluctuating during that phase. Basically, so, for instance, like the week leading up to your period, you want to avoid those high impact, high intensity workouts because your body is already kind of stressed. Your hormones are dropping pretty significantly right before your period, so you don't want to add more stress to your body.

Kasia:

Essentially, this is actually. This has been such a game changer for me personally because I feel like for all the type A's out there, I hear you, I feel you like there's something about also a workout routine that it just makes me want to follow it right, Like if I'm doing like three days a week of something, I'm like trying to stick to it. But I noticed that adjusting my workouts based on where I'm at in my cycle has actually helped with the pain that I experienced during my cycle. Like I think it's just not putting all that stress on my body by trying to move so intensely has been incredibly helpful, yeah.

Maddy Pollack:

I noticed a huge, huge difference and I've noticed that to be like maybe the number one thing that helps clients too, especially if they're trying to lose weight and they can't and they feel like they're eating healthy and, you know, working out. A lot of the times it has to do with that really high intensity workout. Yeah, I noticed that too. I like stopped doing all hit and I only do hot yoga and like yoga sculpts now and it helps so much, Like my anxiety levels, because I'm already like an anxious girly, so like my cortisol levels are naturally high, so when I was doing that I was just keeping them high, you know 100%.

Kasia:

I mean I it's. It actually is pretty wild I feel like we should re emphasize that for a minute that I feel as though as a society okay, not a society, but like the narrative around fitness and working out has completely ignored the fact that the types of workouts that you do either can like support your nervous system or make it like kind of more dysregulated, like we've I don't know what it was and I don't know. This is obvious to me now, but just to consider, like if I'm in a high stress job or going through like a high stress period of time, and then I go and I spend my 5am mornings after not getting enough sleep, like doing a high intensity workout on top of that which also spikes your cortisol, like that is like a recipe for disaster. But I never thought about that, like in my 20s and you know, I'll even say like two years ago, right, yeah.

Maddy Pollack:

I never did either. Like, truly, and yeah, like, and you're waking up, like you said, I used to do the 6am like Orange Theory class like every day, would wake up at like five and go do it and even if I was so tired I couldn't sleep in because they charge you and like it's crazy. So, yeah, just the thought that I was like doing that, that was my main workout and that was before I was diagnosed with cancer, which I'm not saying like you know, who knows but I was so stressed out and anxious and I didn't even like realize it.

Kasia:

Okay, so we talked a bit about the misconceptions there around movement. Is there anything else that you want to add around movement, Like in addition to kind of adjusting your workouts based on where you are in your cycle, Because, reminder ladies, we do not cycle in 24 hours like men do, like it takes us about 28 days give or take. Is there anything else that you would add to kind of considerations for movement?

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, one more thing I would say is that a lot of people don't consider movement, natural movement, whether it's yoga or walking, like they don't count that as their exercise for the day. And I would say, to try and shift that mindset a little bit, because it can be your movement for the day, like you know, you want your heart rate up and all the things. But I find that a lot of people they're like okay, well, I went on a walk today, I also have to do this, like I'm pushing myself to do this even though, like, maybe I'm tired or I don't feel great. Just know, like that movement is just as important, truly, as an intense class or a run.

Kasia:

Okay, Love this. I think this is such an important one, Really good reminder and just kind of thinking like evolutionarily that is how we used to move, you know, like our ancestors were not like let me schedule in the soul cycle class, like that just didn't happen. So yeah, it makes sense. I love that.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, and like the blue zones, if you're familiar with the blue zones we tell our audience a bit about the blue zones.

Kasia:

for those who don't know, yeah, the blue zones is.

Maddy Pollack:

I think it's eight locations in the world where people are the healthiest, they live the longest, and they're all kind of based on nutrition. Community movement stress different things like that, and they also it's not focused on workout classes, it's focused on natural movement, like walking with friends and walking up hills to your home and like different things like that. So that also rang a bell when you said the evolutionary piece 100%.

Kasia:

So I want to shift gears into the last pillar you talked about, which is mindfulness, and I think this ties back to what you were saying, which is just really a becoming aware of how you feel in your body, that cultivating that embodiment can inform our workouts, that can inform intuitive eating, like are we hungry, are we not hungry? And so I would love for you to talk a bit about mindfulness and like why is that important for hormonal regulation?

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, yeah.

Maddy Pollack:

So mindfulness is so important.

Maddy Pollack:

When I think of mindfulness personally, it for me is also inclusive of stress management, because mindfulness really is the practice of coming back to the present moment as much as possible.

Maddy Pollack:

And it's a practice, so not perfect, but it's so important to have, ideally, a daily mindfulness practice. So that can mean meditation, but it can mean lots of other things too. It can be like three minutes of deep breathing, it can be gratitude journaling, it can be brain draining, like it could be a lot of different things, but having some sort of daily practice is so important for us to take a moment, be with ourselves in the present, like tune in breathe. We're like really basically not breathing for most of us like the whole day we're breathing from our chest rather than our belly, and that is so important to include in our daily lives because it regulates our nervous system, brings down our cortisol levels, it tells our body that we're safe and we can get into rest and digest mode versus fight or flight which so many of us again, especially as women are living in and we don't even maybe realize it.

Kasia:

Just for folks listening to this, what would be some signals to look for if you are operating in like a rest and digest state or a fight or flight most of the day, like even right now you're listening to this and you want to be like like where am I operating from? Like what should someone cue into? Can we even tell in our body, yeah, yeah you can tell.

Maddy Pollack:

It takes, I think, some little practice to be able to tell of like where does your and? And when I say stress, I don't just mean stress from work or stress from family stuff or friend stuff, like I mean getting up in the morning, first thing you're doing is scrolling on your phone, then you're checking your emails. That is also stress in our body. So it's really important to start to understand. Do I feel like I'm like go, go, go, go go all day? Do I crash in the afternoon? When you get into bed? Is it hard for you to fall asleep? Is your mind just going? Are you waking up around 2 to 4 am?

Maddy Pollack:

If you have extra weight that you feel like you can't get off, that might be a part of the issue as well. So different things like that can be signs of fight or flight that you're like living in that. And I would take a moment, even like right now, and see, like where you're breathing from. Like put one hand on your heart, one hand on your belly, and are you breathing from your chest when you inhale? Are you breathing from your belly when you inhale or are you breathing from your belly when you inhale and just like, take a moment and put it in the belly, put your inhale in your belly and then your chest, because when you do that it signals to your brain again that you're safe and can get into that rest and digest mode.

Kasia:

I love this. I recently was working on a project with a CBT psychologist who's also like a professor of psychology here in the Bay Area. I don't remember exactly like which school, which university he teaches at, but one of the things that I know he mentioned about these deep belly breaths is like it stimulates like kind of the holding breath pattern, and the expanding of the belly also helps stimulate your vagus nerve, which like actually is like kind of the thing that you need to bring your body into that parasympathetic state. So it's like a massage for just feeling less stressed, which is kind of amazing. Yes, totally.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, If I don't know if you've read the book, how to do the work, but she talks, highly recommend. She talks so much about the vagus nerve and our nervous system and it's so so like educational but also really helpful. She has exercises in there to help tune in with your body and like understand where you're at If you feel like you're living in that fight or flight state.

Kasia:

So I I do want to touch on, especially for a lot of the women that listen to this podcast. Some of them are in that weird not like weird, but limbo state of not quite in menopause, perhaps entering perimenopause, which is the period of time before menopause. So menopause is really marked as that one year anniversary that you haven't had a period for a full year, and then perimenopause is what like five to even 10 years prior to that. Some women go into perimenopause earlier and I'm curious what would be some advice if you could choose like one to three things for women to consider who are in that life stage, about things that they should look at, adjustments they should consider making, like, what would that look like for women who are starting to transition into that period of life?

Maddy Pollack:

It's actually, to be honest, really similar. And also for menopause, to like, yes, things can be different in terms of the small kind of tactics, but those pillars are super important. So I would and that sounds hard because it's like kind of everything right, but I would take a look at like nutrition, balanced meals again really similar to what I said before. I would take a look at movement and maybe you're doing high intensity movement. I find that in that phase two, cortisol is a really big factor. That woman in that phase tend to have kids, sometimes little kids. Their routines are all over the place, they have a lot to think about, maybe they're working, so I find that stress is pretty high during that time of life. And so really focusing on that, like, what does your morning routine look like? Can you ease into the day a little bit? Can you have a little bit time for yourself? That's probably one of, like, the big themes that I find with women in that stage. Does that answer the question?

Kasia:

Yeah, I mean I also I kind of just had a thought, which is, I think you know we kind of there's this narrative around like biohacking and optimizing your health and like what would it look like to optimize for living a bit more stress-free, like if that were the meter by which you're measuring health, in a way, right Like cause, if you are eating in, like a calm state and you don't feel totally depleted, like if you're optimizing for those things, I feel like so many things will fill in, like fall into place, right, like not doing as intense workouts and stuff like that. So, yeah, I feel I really like that, especially the stress recommendation. That's super helpful.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, I think that's a big one to focus on, and morning and nighttime routines are also really, really important. So trying not to again like reach for your phone or emails first thing in the morning, also at night, trying to like avoid the phone for at least 30 minutes before bed, grab a book or a journal or something like that, because then again it like takes you into the present. You're not just like scrolling and looking at all the things and comparing and everything that comes with scrolling on social media, so trying to come into the present moment in those times as well.

Kasia:

So we're coming up on time. I know I could chat with you for a while, but I do want to do a little like round robin of some wellness questions that I like to ask. So let's kind of wrap up with that, and then I would love for you to share with the audience how they can find you, but we'll kind of do that in a minute. So first things first. If you're a game, the first thing that comes to mind, if you had to choose one morning or evening routine, which one Morning? Okay, and what does it look like for you?

Maddy Pollack:

I love my mornings. I've always been an early sleeper, early riser. So I wake up, I grab my coffee. I put some protein powder in it, a little protein coffee. Um, I sit on the couch with my cat and I read for 10 minutes and then I journal and then usually I'll watch like some sort of reality tv for like 30 minutes before I get my day started that is the funniest routine ever actually.

Kasia:

I have not heard the reality show situation Like. That's like it calms me down.

Maddy Pollack:

I know it sounds crazy, but like Bravo, I'm a Bravo fanatic and it's like comforting to me for some reason.

Kasia:

You know what I love about it. I'm super into Gabby Bernstein these days. Like I'm just all my friends listening to this are like Kasia, please, just like. I'm just like setting them the quotes and I'm like, oh, like I love her. I she didn't resonate for a while so I'm into like how much I'm loving this. But she talks about like the power of having a, like a good mindset and like feeling good and like how that can really shift what's happening in the world for you, and I see that to be true in my own life. And so if Bravo makes you happy like first thing in the morning, I feel like that's, that's a really great life hack.

Maddy Pollack:

You know I love it, yeah, yeah, it's so random, but it like also. I'm like okay, well, like my day is not gonna be as stressful as theirs, so I'm feeling good.

Kasia:

So for you, when does movement come into play? Is that like after your Bravo routine? Is that in the evening, Like when does that happen? Also, morning, usually, yes, after that after my Bravo routine. Okay, and so another question I have in terms of beverage are you tea? Coffee, neither. If so, what's the alternative?

Maddy Pollack:

Coffee and water. Like I love water, a lot of people don't, which is so interesting. But and coffee, yes, love coffee. There's so much. That's another kind of thing that's going around Like take out coffee and it's like I'm not doing that.

Kasia:

It brings me too much joy. I feel like that's like a whole nother topic to discuss. Yeah, yeah, I think that differs per person. We're going to table that for now, okay, and then the last part that I would love to ask you about is what is your spiritual practice look like, and does that tie together with your mindfulness practice? And if not, like what does that look like?

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, I yoga is like a really, really big one. I do yoga almost every day and that is super, super important for me to have that space for myself to move my body. It's like a moving meditation, I feel like. For me, journaling is a really big one, I find, yeah, for me, like spiritual and mindfulness kind of go hand in hand. So that's a really big one. And then I'll recommend two books if that's helpful. Yeah, of course. One is they both have changed my life. The first one is Radical Acceptance by Tara Brock, highly highly recommend. The next one is when Things Fall Apart by Pima Chodron. Both are absolutely incredible.

Kasia:

Love both of those books. By the way. Do you meditate as well? I mean, like both of those books are by longtime meditators. I mean Tara Brach, like Vipassana Meditation, pima Chodron I think she's Shambhala. I know all about this. I'm like going down the Buddhist rabbit hole. So do you meditate as well, or no To be?

Maddy Pollack:

honest, I'm not a big meditator. Like not every day do I sit and meditate. I feel like for me yoga is kind of my meditation. If I feel like very anxious or stressed, I'll put on a meditation. But yeah, it's not like a daily practice for me.

Kasia:

Well, I mean, I think that the mind-body connection that's cultivated with yoga is definitely meditative. It's like a moving meditation. I mean, in even Zen practice you have like walking and sitting meditation, and so I think yoga totally constitutes like a movement practice. And there was a study that I read in your Body Keeps the Score and actually some other studies that are published online. I'll link them below. It was like NIH had researched different modalities like meditation MBSR being a big one, which is mindfulness-based stress reduction meditation as compared to different modalities like yoga and other modalities, in terms of which ones increased HRV, which is like an indicator of like how frequently are you in that parasympathetic state and yoga like outperformed? So it was pretty impressive.

Maddy Pollack:

Yeah, that's so interesting. I'm a yoga instructor as well, so I'm like a major yoga pusher. Like literally every client I'm like Okay, so when can we try yoga?

Kasia:

Amazing. Okay, so we are just about at time. Could you share with our audience, where people can find you, anything you have coming up that you want to share, please, yes, yes, and I'm gonna link everything below, by the way, so don't worry about spelling it.

Maddy Pollack:

Perfect, okay, thank you so much for having me. First of all, yes, you can find me on Instagram at Maddy Pollack, underscore health, and then website is Maddy Pollack healthcom. I have I do one on one coaching and then I also do live group coaching and I have an upcoming self paced course as well and that's hormone focus. So it's called eight weeks to hormone balance and it's all self paced, it's weekly modules and that's hormone focus. So it's called eight weeks to hormone balance. Um, and it's all self-paced, it's weekly modules, and then you'll also be part of a um like private Facebook group essentially too, so we can chat and stay accountable and all that good stuff. So that's coming up July 15th. I don't know when this is coming out, but Love it.

Kasia:

No, I think this will be live in time, right beforehand, actually, so that'll be perfect. Well, amazing, Maddy, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much. This was so fun. I really appreciate it. Thanks everyone for tuning in. See you next time. Thank you so much for tuning into the Other Way. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a five-star review. It really helps the podcast grow and I'm ever so grateful. If you want to stay connected, you can find information on how in our show notes. And finally, if you're curious about inflow and want free resources around cyclical living or moon cycles, check out inflowplannercom. And, of course, for all my listeners, you can use the code podcast10, and that's all lowercase podcast10, for 10% off any purchase. All right, that's all for today. See you next time.

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Kasia Stiggelbout

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